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    Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:21 am

    (This tends to go a bit everywhere, but hopefully you can follow it)

    3 whole weeks into the year and I've hit a hole.
    1st week pretty good.
    2nd week below par.
    3rd week awful.

    This has me asking questions of myself again. It's a recurring theme with me.
    I got thinking at work the other day about something AP said to me in the pool.
    I was trying to do band only 25s. I was sinking. It felt like I was just about vertical in the water.
    At the end of the 2nd or 3rd one he said to me that I actually had my legs higher in the water than a couple of the others, and I had to believe I could do it. I scoffed, which is my usual response to such things, but did actually get better for the remaining attempts.
    This got me thinking about my training and life in general later in the day. It certainly applies to my diet and most likely to my lack of training at times.

    This lead onto some calculations of another Training week and the associated costs.
    Basically, I'm training between 2 squads for swimming (Red Dog and Cycos) and doing running/riding solo or (very rarely) at free bunch rides. If I get to 3 swims a week, which I really require, that's about $30 a week session costs. Given that I could pay $100 a month for as many Red Dog sessions as I can get to or $180 a month for a program and sessions with AP, the $30 a week ad hoc approach doesn't seem as clever.

    That leads me to another issue though.
    My way of thinking about these things has been that if I can't do a month of sessions that I've planned for myself, is it worth paying someone to write a plan?
    Won't I just not do their sessions instead?
    That's the chicken and egg bit - do I self motivate and complete the sessions I come up with then get a coach once I have some consistancy or would getting a coach to plan a few months better motivate me to train by having a more structured approach?

    The other thing that brings up is which squad to go with if I do go that way. Given I can see myself doing more HIM type events than ODs (USM/Bribie events will take care of themselves either way) I'd lean towards Cycos, but some of the sessions they have are a bit intimidating from the outside.

    Thoughts anyone? Your own experiences with similar questions?
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    Alex R
    **MicroMan World Record Holder**

    Posts : 353
    Join date : 2009-11-02

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Alex R on Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:55 am

    I've been where you are at before Dave right down to the sessions you speak of.

    I was training day to day just to be fit enough to be able to finish the longer sessions that Cycos did. Because I had been out of the sport for a while, I had no expectation of keeping up with anybody and it purely became about completition. I worried about just purely hitting the numbers, such as if the run was 40 minutes, run 40 minutes, if the run was supposed to be 3 hours, run 3 hours but DONT just run the same route as the others and end up doing 4 hours. Once I was ticking off every session eventually that meant I was ticking off every week, then every month and eventually you get up a head of steam and not only do you tick the time but you start to get the ability to also go faster which actually happens all by itself.

    A picture tells a thousand words....



    Now for the words Wink

    That is the last 28 days of my running straight from training peaks. The blue bars are pace and the red line is HR. I just ticked along at the same heart rate and watched the speed come down. This WILL happen for you. In all seiousness, Al is a master at getting overweight undermotivated people into shape for results far above what they ever would have thought possible. One thing that realy stuck with me, and it really does work for things like swimming with band or hard repeats on the track etc

    LET IT BE EASY
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    Blair V

    Posts : 67
    Join date : 2010-01-03

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Blair V on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:01 am

    Dave, I've found that having a coach and a structured program helps with the motivation anyway.

    As for a squad I would go for the one that you think will help you most but don't be intimidated by their sessions. I'm sure you won't be the weakest/slowest one there

    Clayton T

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2010-01-24

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Clayton T on Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:19 am

    Dave

    I took on a coach (online as I'm in a regional town) prior to the Yeppoon half. While it was good that I did not have to think about sessions, i found my line of work made it hard to stick to the plan. The online coaching was a lot cheaper than what your looking at, but I would lose motivation quickly if i was paying that sort of coin and not taking advantage of it. IN saying that if I lived near Yeronga and had 9 to 5ish job, I know what I would be doing. I attend a squad session at the pool once a week now to ensure I get at least one quality swim session a week. I find motivation to ride and run easy, but i will drop planned swim anytime.

    PS. entering my first Ironman in March is also a good motivator!
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:44 am

    Alex R wrote:One thing that realy stuck with me, and it really does work for things like swimming with band or hard repeats on the track etc

    LET IT BE EASY
    Yeah, I've actually heard the corollary in the pool, that I'm letting it be too hard. My first thought was "Letting it? If I could make it easy I would in a heartbeat!"

    Clayton T wrote:I find motivation to ride and run easy, but i will drop planned swim anytime.
    That was where I used to do it too. I didn't like swimming, so it was easy to drop. Now, I suppose I know I need help on the swim, so I'm more likely to make a planned swim at the moment.

    Blair V wrote:I've found that having a coach and a structured program helps with the motivation anyway
    You've mentioned you've found it beneficial before. Do you think part of it's knowing that the sessions have a purpose/progression rather than something you're doing for the sake of riding etc?

    Dave B

    Posts : 27
    Join date : 2009-11-04
    Location : the Lake

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave B on Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:11 pm

    my take on coaching/no coach is 80% motivation and 20% programming with a dash of social outing mixed in.
    I have never lacked motivation and with young kids and limited transport at times it has just been easier to do my own thing.
    the last year or so I have been swimming 2 times a week in our local pool with a few friends with a good swimmer setting us some sets.I will NEVER enjoy swimming up and down a pool and can't bring myself to swim open water as much as I would love to.the odd trip to Hugh Munz lake nearer IM time will have to do.
    last winter I went along to PCRG once a week and enjoyed doing some timed running sets and a couple of 3km TTs...did notice a real improvement in my speed too.
    I ride to work ( 10km each way) most days and try to add in a couple of city loops a week as well...just about all my cycling is solo.
    personally I think folks that do all their cycling in packs may be setting themselves up for tough days come race day.
    Dave it sounds like you want to sign on with a coach and I think you are a good candidate-take the guess work out and you can then concentrate on just doing what is asked and building some consistency.
    seeing others in pain and misery is just a bonus !!!
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
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    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:34 pm

    Alex R wrote:I've been where you are at before Dave right down to the sessions you speak of.

    I was training day to day just to be fit enough to be able to finish the longer sessions that Cycos did. Because I had been out of the sport for a while, I had no expectation of keeping up with anybody and it purely became about completition.

    I re-read that bit, but the big difference between our situations there is that you knew you could do it, having been there before, it was just a matter of time for you.
    What about when you first started out with Cycos?
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    Alex R
    **MicroMan World Record Holder**

    Posts : 353
    Join date : 2009-11-02

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Alex R on Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:15 pm

    That was my first time with cycos. My triathlon background prior was very much like yours if not more value for money Wink (slower). 3 hour ODs, 1:25 Sprints etc. My (cardio) sporting backgound is in basketball and squash which is vastly different to triathlon. I had also done a 6:20 half IM a little over a year before I started with Cycos and a 5:56 or so the day before. I really had no idea how to train. To be honest, everthing I read you write could have been me in 2005. Seriously.

    I have done an eormos amount of research the last few years and I reckon I could knock up an Ironman program that would be as good as 95% of the ones you will get from most places. What you are going to get at Cycos (or most coached groups) is a great vibe and someone who actually sees you train day to day and can adjust where required. One thing to nte with Al though is that he is not going to be all pats on the back and YOU GO GUY type stuff. Your momma is for sympathy. He will tell you as it is. I liked that. Some do not, mostly chicks.
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    Julie H

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    Join date : 2009-11-05
    Age : 42
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Julie H on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:29 am

    Dave, I think what you need is a coach and the belief that you can do it. I have seen many people finish IM that I thought was impossible. In Kona there are people who finish with a missing leg or no legs at all. The Cycos have a real mix of abilities so you will be fine and as Alex said AP is good at helping people who are in your situation. Just have an open mind and believe you can do it. I remember Alex when he first started and the transformation was incredible. You are not much difference.

    Once you make a few friends in the Cycos you will want to go to training and tick off the sessions on your training program.
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    Dani "fezza" T

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    Location : fezzalaide

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dani "fezza" T on Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:32 am

    Clayton T wrote:Dave



    PS. entering my first Ironman in March is also a good motivator!


    HHEHHEHE - another victim!! Congrats and all the best with the training Smile
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    Allan P

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    Join date : 2009-12-14
    Age : 70
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Allan P on Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:17 am

    Dave you big sook

    Be there in the morning

    The motivation will build as the self belief builds, it all comes up together

    Each little step, your discovery that you really aren't that bad at bands, that's one step in the right direction.

    The next thing is to get one month's program, then commit to ticking off every square as you do them. At the end of that month your self belief will have stepped up several notches.

    Before you get a program, do you realise you have to state what your goals is? Just this step alone is going to change things for you.

    Do you realise that every program is written to suit where you are right now, you won't get the same stuff as the guys who are three years more advanced than you.
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
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    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:50 am

    Allan P wrote:Dave you big sook

    I can feel the love already! Suspect clown
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:58 am

    An update:
    I'm going to have Mr Pitman train me.

    Clayton T

    Posts : 3
    Join date : 2010-01-24

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Clayton T on Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:14 am

    well done. It will be interesting to here your feedback in a few months.

    Do you have IM in mind?
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:27 am

    Yeah, Port IM (or Melbourne or Gold Coast or wherever it is Rolling Eyes ) next year.

    A couple of HIMs, a Marathon and a little ultra this year, assuming AP says it's OK Smile
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    Blair V

    Posts : 67
    Join date : 2010-01-03

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Blair V on Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:14 am

    Dave Tyno wrote:Yeah, Port IM (or Melbourne or Gold Coast or wherever it is Rolling Eyes ) next year.

    A couple of HIMs, a Marathon and a little ultra this year, assuming AP says it's OK Smile

    Which ultra?
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:02 pm

    Depending how things pan out, I will try to do all of Kurrawa to Duranbah.

    crazzycat

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    Join date : 2010-02-12

    Re: Motivation and coaching - the chicken or the egg?

    Post by crazzycat on Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:07 pm

    i believe that coochers work wonders

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