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    5 weeks - run or swim focus?

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    Dave Tyno

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    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:49 pm

    I did the swim leg in a team at Mooloolaba OD yesterday.
    My time was 36:15.
    I thought I would go a bit faster than that.
    I want to go faster than that at Byron in 5 weeks.

    Given that I only have 5 weeks, is it possible to knock around 6 minutes off an OD time by swimming 3 or 4 times a week?
    I want to go 2:45 at Byron.
    Splits I had in mind were 30/1:20/55

    So, what's more likely - do a 3 or 4 swims a week and try and get that time down or do more runs and aim for a 50 minute run instead?
    My stand alone 10 k PB is only 48:30 ish.
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    Paul F
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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Paul F on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:10 pm

    G'day Dave,

    Really good topic.

    In terms of swimming you would need to do alot more than 3-4 sessions PW to knock 6 minutes off your swim time.It will also depend on how much swimming you have been doing??? if it has only been 1-2 sessions PW then yes maybe a dedicated swim focus of 5-6 sessions PW could do it. But, if you are already swimming 2-3 sessions PW then upping it to 3-4 sessions PW won't work.

    If you dead set keen to do a big improvement on the the swim time then pop me an email I have a 6 week swim block here ready to go if you want it.


    Personally knocking off 5 mins off your run time would be more satisfying. How much are you running at the moment? I can give you a few sessions that may help.


    fluro
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    Alex R
    **MicroMan World Record Holder**

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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Alex R on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:26 pm

    Completely different angle from me but to be blunt, reading your blog and facebook you need a 5 week training focus. That is for the next 5 weeks tun up at all your planned training sessions at the planned time. Swim or bike or pelvic floor focus is not where you are in your training life as yet.
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    Paul F
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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Paul F on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:34 pm

    Facebook, blog, twitter.......I'm so behind te times.


    I'm still on a prepaid phone. Sad

    Hell I can't even figure out how to post a comment on your blog Plaz LOL


    fluro
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    Ryan T

    Posts : 14
    Join date : 2009-11-09
    Age : 43
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Ryan T on Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:25 am

    This is perfect timing for me as I am REALLY struggling with swim progress at the moment. I do not seem to be improving at all fitness/technique wise and am actually starting to worry I wont finish the swim at Byron.. Sad

    I am thinking of adding at least 2 more swims a week to try and get some more 'feel for the water' although that sounds like a wives tale to me..
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    Paul F
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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Paul F on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:02 am

    G'day Ryan,

    Some quick swim tips

    If you feel your technique sucks, then swim smoothstudy this website and focus on one thing until yo feel you have ingrained the changed

    Secondly, do lots of short fast effort with long recoveries. lots of very fast 25's, 50's, 100's. Tke all the rest you need to keep building your swim specific strength.

    If you keep doing the longer slower intervals you'll just reinforce poor technique at slower paces.


    Do a regular band only set, eg a ladder, 25,50,75,100,75,50,25. Band only swimming will force you to find a better position in the water. If you don't you sink. So having the band on make you think about what you doing. For the guys I coach that tends to be the catch (people tend push the hand down instead of back at the catch, thus causing your top half to raise up and feet sink, head position (they lift their head up too much causing feet to drop), and flat swimming (no rotation through the hips) causing feet to drop.

    If you really struggle with band only try pushing your head and chest down as you swim, this helps alot with body position.

    Do a lots of paddle work as this will also expose weaknesses in your stroke. Once again you start thinking about what you are doing

    lastly, don't do buoy only swimming. While it creates a better body position it doesn't teach you how to find it yourself.

    This website has really good swim sessions that cater well for triathletes

    Swim sessions



    Hope it helps


    fluro
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    Ryan T

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    Age : 43
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Ryan T on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:10 am

    Paul,

    Thanks for your advice. i have been using swim smooth for a while but think I am trying to rush things by not cementing each step before progressing.. Maybe I need to slow down my progression through each skill/drill.
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    Dave Tyno

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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:21 am

    Alex R wrote:Swim or bike or pelvic floor focus is not where you are in your training life as yet.

    As usual, you're probably right Alex.
    I got to swimming this morning and had a crap 200 m time as well.
    Al told me today that my head is too high, so I end up dragging my legs around.
    This actually made me confused initially then I managed to apply it to Sunday's swim.

    In open water especially, I spend a lot of time trying to see where I'm heading, so my head would be even higher, which would mean I'm dragging my legs even more. This probably helps explain why my open water swim times are slower than I'd hoped.

    Fluro - only 1 or 2 sessions a week at the moment. Time wise, I'm thinking 3 sessions is what I can do comfortably.
    Tuesday morning, Thursday evening and Saturday morning. I have the option of Monday/Wed evening swims as well, but I'm not sure about backing up day after day.

    Running - Plaz is right. I just need to get out there.
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    Campbell M
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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Campbell M on Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:03 am

    A 5 week run focus from where you are now will see you getting injured. Just aim to do your planned training, as Plaz suggested.

    With swimming, however, the risks of increasing volume are far less so of course there's more pay-off with that approach.

    But overall, as Plaz suggested, just training consistently is the most valuable thing you can do.
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    Alex R
    **MicroMan World Record Holder**

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    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Alex R on Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:54 pm

    ACtually Tyno, I thought about it while swimming again today. You and I are probably at a pretty similar place in training hours per week looking at Triathlog. If anything you are doing a bit more but that is more because your sesions tend to be longer. I have not trained properly since mid 2008. Sure I rode a bike last year but that was pretty unstructured. If anything it was a god block of learning about power and WKO+.

    Take from this what you will. Right now, my training consists of trying to do 3 swims, 3 rides and 3 runs a week. There is no real intent to the sessions other than holding good form and technique as well as limiting over and under speed. The intensity I would liken to a couple of percent above easy. I am in a block of 'training to train'. This is not just aout fitness but the habit. Things like thinking about making sure I get enough water in after sessions and during the day (it is hot in the desert affraid ), avoiding crappy foods that I know will leave me lethargic or worse still give me a stitch(killed a whole Ironman for me). It is also about discipline in getting out for the session and doing 'your' session. It can be very easy to go to fast or to slow, too far or too short or at the top of the tree is not going at all.

    This is why I suggested Al. He sets a very doable program for people who need to get their stuff into gear.

    Campbell's advice on swimming is one I have listened to a few times and in my experience it is spot on. What I will add though is to remember while the physical act of swimming is pretty much impossible to get you over trained, the reality of swimming lots can be very different and I mean this is your (and my in Brisbane) specific case. For you to swim, I am assuming you mean with Trent or Al? This means most likely very early in the morning or after work. Think to yourelf, if you add a morning session, what is it going to do to the likely hood of you doing whatever you had planned for the arvo? Also, an evening session, what will that do to your fatigue? This means a train ride, late home , late dinner, late to bed.... pretty unlikely you will get up early I am betting? Wink I find the whole act of swimming to be very fatiguing on a whole program level IF NOT MANAGED OR SCHEDULED PROPERLY. When I added the Mon/Wed pm swims you mentioned above, it near killed me and it certainly was the start of the slide towards my 'slump.
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    Dave Tyno

    Posts : 182
    Join date : 2009-11-02
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: 5 weeks - run or swim focus?

    Post by Dave Tyno on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:51 pm

    Yeah, just getting my schedule organised is one of my biggest limiters.
    I mean, I really should be in bed now, but I'm tooling around the 'net.
    I still haven't got any gear ready for work or any training tomorrow.

    Tuesday & Saturday with Cycos, Thursday evening with Red Dog is my goal for swimming for now.

    As for my sessions being a bit longer, it's just 'cos I'm slower Smile

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