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Triathlon training discusssion


+7
Glenn C
Dan B
Campbell M
Paul F
Nathan C
andrew b
Scott M
11 posters

    Maintaining low HR whilst runnig

    Glenn C
    Glenn C


    Posts : 109
    Join date : 2009-11-02

    Maintaining low HR whilst runnig - Page 2 Empty Re: Maintaining low HR whilst runnig

    Post by Glenn C Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:00 am

    Dave, firstly I would almost gaurantee your average HR on the long run should be lower than that. People don't actually vary that much. The increase in HR for the same speed is likely anindication that endurance for the given distance is lacking. yeh other factors can play a part too, but if this is what always happens endurance is the limiter.

    Paul, I'm not saying that people should not take into account how they are feeling to amend taining sessions appropriately. I am saying that most especially the inexperienced don't have the ability to do that objectively and in most cases would be better off not doing more or harder. Instead enjoy the feeling of having a good successful session inthe bank. Brett Sutton is in a different environment to a coached athlete via emails for example. He can make assesments of the athletes on the day and appears to have a skill for it. I doubt many "coaches" would have this ability.

    In addition, playing with intensity and mileage in an adhoc manner for the run often leads to injury. Very timely, as a friend of mine recently experienced this and ended up racing in Canberra with a soft tissue injury caused by amending his planned run a few weeks out. This inhibited his ability to reach his goal on the day Crying or Very sad Its less risky to play with bike and swim plans, but people should always be very careful with running.

    Paul: "need to learn how to pay attention more to how we are feeling in order to make the micro changes to our sessions, should a situations arise. I think this leads to long term improvements on a consistent basis."

    Perhaps we are saying the same thing. I know we have already been around the mulberry bush on this subject. For running I think the far better method is to round down (intensity or duration) when in doubt...never up. If you think you could do more see how you absorb that session over the next day or two and consider making variations for the next one. I always make a point of having 2 successful run sessions in a row before extending myself again. This has worked well avoiding any injury since starting back into tri training. As I already said biking doesn't quite have these restrictions, but remember to keep in mind the intent of 1. the phase 2. the session. The problem is most triathletes don't understand how to do this. If you don't, YOU CAN ALWAYS WIND BACK but don't start making changes because your ego needs a massage. Your coach has a plan for you...believe in the plan.

    edit: Give your coach feedback. Good feedback, not that emotive stuff.
    Paul F
    Paul F
    Coach


    Posts : 267
    Join date : 2009-11-02

    Maintaining low HR whilst runnig - Page 2 Empty Re: Maintaining low HR whilst runnig

    Post by Paul F Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:27 am

    G'day Glenn,

    It's a big Mulberry bush. Laughing

    Good points again and I particularly like this one.

    Give your coach feedback. Good feedback, not that emotive stuff.

    When I look over my athletes logs, I trust they will execute the session as planned. Therefore the results according to pace, distance, HR, etc are not as important from a planning point of view as their comments are.
    It's the comments they make about the sessions, it's tone of voice in the emails that assist me more in determining whether or not someone is ready to do more or less (volume and or intensity).

    Those comments on triathlog really assist me in connecting with an athlete and being able to understand how how they can handle.

    Even when people don't send the normal weekly feedback, quite often there is a reason for this and is something that I will pursue with them. Other weeks I get emails, where athletes are sky high emotionally and everything is great. This all influences my decisions in terms of planning.



    Triathlg is an absolute gem of a resource from a coaching point of view.



    fluro
    SamuelEB
    SamuelEB


    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2009-12-12
    Location : Mackay

    Maintaining low HR whilst runnig - Page 2 Empty Re: Maintaining low HR whilst runnig

    Post by SamuelEB Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:44 am

    Paul F wrote:
    andrew b wrote:seems to me like a good way to make a fun activity as boring as hell.

    things like running econemy take a long time to develop. a hell of a lot longer than 4 weeks. consistent running kms over months will get you more efficient no matter what hr you run at. for example if you run 2 hours at your "high" hr and get through it fine then thats cool for you. if in fact the given hr is too high you will be ruined at the end of the session or injured and you will learn from that. if you need to go easier, run slower

    I see just the opposite from what I have experienced when you start training with a low HR you'll find you'll be much less fatigued and tired and you'll be able to start backing up a lot more frequently. I apply a similar principle to the guys I coach, initially they complain at how slow and easy it feels, but within a short period of time they increase their volume and the training frequency they are doing and what ends up happening is that they become much more economical and efficient at their goal race paces.

    I've got a stack of guys that have been able to move their zone 1 run pace from 5:30min/k down to 4:30min/k, just check of triathlog for the results.

    The reason behind this sort of approach is that you are constantly reinforcing good running form by not finishing off your runs with fatigue. This then allows you to run more often and consequently you are reinforcing good running form over and over again.

    It's a great off season protocol to follow.


    fluro

    + 1 This is the only way I have learnt how to "run" often enough to get any "better". Better being 6:15/km down to 5:50/km at same HR on same course at same time etc.
    Gillian A
    Gillian A


    Posts : 20
    Join date : 2009-11-30
    Age : 69
    Location : Sydney

    Maintaining low HR whilst runnig - Page 2 Empty Re: Maintaining low HR whilst runnig

    Post by Gillian A Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:30 am

    I'm writing up a program for my 18 year old son who has not a competitive bone in his body. Slow running is not a problem for him, neither is slow riding, which is good because by the time I'm finished with him he will have a superb base!

    We observed last weekend that he has amazing climbing ability, just kicks into a low gear and keeps on keeping on.

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