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Triathlon training discusssion


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Campbell M
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    Alex R
    Alex R
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    Post by Alex R Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:52 am

    I am going to get some challenges up and running in the near future. Those who read transitions or Triathlog may have seen some. Things like run a certain number of times in 3 months, run a distance, train then run the same course again and so on.

    I am after suggestions if you have any. I am thinking to keeep inline with forum discussion, it will be a long run related challenge. Note these are not to have a winner but just use yourself as a bench mark. I would ideally love to have a 12 month marathon challenge. Another I thought of is a 1km swim TT and a 5km as flat as you can find bike TT. Also I have thought about a 4 week Half Ironman. You would have 4 weeks to do each leg and add them up for a total time.

    1.9 swim TT
    90km bike TT
    21.1 run TT


    I always considered doing it on transitions but never bothered. I am thinking some time in January.
    Ideas?
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    Peta R


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    Post by Peta R Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:04 am

    Alex, I always love these challenges however don't feel I am able to participate as I try and follow my coaches plan. Yes, I could ask my coach to include them in my program however I present him enough challenges when I ask to do mtb races in the middle of IM training. Is it possible to do a challenge that wouldn't compromise any training plans? BTW: I have no idea "what", just asking the question.
    Paul F
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    Post by Paul F Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:21 am

    G'day Alex,

    Great idea. Maybe think about having shorter challenges, so that people are overly challenged by the distance. That way I think you'll have more people participate and the challenges would have a less of an impact on peoples training programs should one just crop up Cool

    To add shorter challenges with say some HR caps would make allow the challenges to occur more frequently.

    For example,

    Swim
    1km at IM effort
    400m max effort

    Bike
    40km at IMHR or HIMHR
    5km max TT

    Run
    10km at IMHHR or HIMHR
    3km max TT

    These tests could then lead to the ultimate challenge or grand finale and cover the distance you have mentioned above.

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    Matt M
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    Post by Matt M Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:50 am

    only issue with doing IM pace etc, everybody is different.

    I just like max effort at point of time, then another at some other point of time. people can still cheat emselves but just drop the hammer if its a 400 swim, or 5k run or whatever
    Paul F
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    Post by Paul F Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:57 am

    G'day Matt,

    Definitely everyone is different, but in saying that, it would be a good opportunity to help people set up training zones to clarify and refine the different levels of effort according to race distances

    Doing max efforts too much could possibly steer people away. I know for me, anything max on the run often results in a big "spew" at the end and I'm not sure if I want that to be happening too often. Shocked

    Plus making comparisons between efforts can often help identify strengths and weaknesses and therefore give people direction and focus with there training.

    fluro
    Alex R
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    Post by Alex R Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:22 am

    Peta R wrote:Alex, I always love these challenges however don't feel I am able to participate as I try and follow my coaches plan. Yes, I could ask my coach to include them in my program however I present him enough challenges when I ask to do mtb races in the middle of IM training. Is it possible to do a challenge that wouldn't compromise any training plans? BTW: I have no idea "what", just asking the question.

    This is exactly why I asked the question. I know at times I would have loved to do certain challenges but the the grand plan did not allow it. Even challenges like core 5 times a week or no bread for 20 days in the month or what ever. You think of it, I will consider it. I like the more 'boutique' ideas.

    For example. one for Julie H 'I will swim with fins for a month and not wear socks' (sorry in joke)
    Paul F
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    Post by Paul F Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:47 pm

    Alex

    How about you just create a "mystery box" starting on first Sunday of each month. Create a number of sessions, pull one out of the hat and that is what we do???????????????

    So maybe all the members can submit one or two sessions into the mystery box.

    Make it fun, adventurous, crazy ,whatever, and then we post results Monday morning and have a good ole banter session, which I'm sure Buff will be right into.

    fluro
    Amy B
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    Post by Amy B Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:45 am

    Ooh, I like the 'no bread' one. I'm really struggling to get off it again and I do love a competition so it might help!

    Maybe something along the lines of Campbell's points scoring system -
    Swim - 1km = 25 pts
    Bike - 1km = 1 pt
    Run - 1km = 5pts

    Make it a goal to tally X number of points over Y period.. I'm sure Reefy could even build something in to Triathlog to keep a tally of the points..
    Matt C
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    Post by Matt C Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:15 am

    challenges are a good idea.. if you dont race alot you can get stale and loose your top end.. particually training for longer events.

    Piecing together an OD 1/2 or full over one or more months is a cool idea. For me i would get on this and use the month before said TT to build up my swim bike or run to have an above race pace hit out.

    If you dont like it dont do it. training above race pace it hot IMO
    Campbell M
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    Post by Campbell M Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:08 am

    I liked the concept the Chuckie-V wrote about "The Tri Dash" as the basis for a challenge. Read about it here.

    And here's the actual text.

    Triathlon, by its very design, is an endurance sport. In general, the capacity to go fast is inferior to the ability to last. But it needn't be this way.


    And so it is I hereby propose a true sprint triathlon, the Tri-Dash. And this is what I have in mind…

    First, the rules. Then the events.

    The rules are essentially like any other swim-bike-run triathlon but for one primary difference: there are no transition areas or transitions. That is to say each of three events is a separate entity, occurring as its own competition. Each event is separated by a number of hours, though all three of these events are to take place in the course of a single day. The results of each event are judged not on a points system (as per decathlon, heptathlon, etc) but strictly by time standards. Athletes qualify for the final through a round of qualifying heats. There would be a women's race and a men's race, of course.

    The events…

    The Swim: The swim consists of a single 100-meter freestyle sprint, from the blocks. It takes place in an Olympic-regulation-size 50-meter pool and each athlete competes in his or her own lane and through qualifying heats.

    The Ride: The ride consists of a 1-kilometer time-trial on an Olympic-regulation 333-meter velodrome. Tri(athletes) are to start individually from a standing start and compete on a fixed gear bike with the gearing ratios of their choice, though equipment is strictly regulated as per UCI (cycling's international governing body) standards. Aero-bars are allowed.

    The Run: The run consists of a single 400-meter dash, from the starting blocks. It takes place on a 400-meter track and essentially follows the rules as that of the International Olympic Committee's track and field rules: each athlete competes in his or her own lane against seven other runners. Runners also qualify through a series of heats though qualifying standards are not based solely on run times but rather combined swim, bike and run qualifying times, so that the final is a true final among the eight fastest sprint triathletes. Runners in the finals all start at one time, despite the "standings" (i.e., time differences) going into the final. That it to say there is no "handicap" start in the final run event as per modern pentathlon.

    How I see things…
    Fast and fun! Any male capable of breaking 3-minutes would likely be deemed "world-class" and perhaps can consider himself one of the truly fastest triathletes in the world. Female times would likely hover within seconds of the male individual event times.

    My best attempt in the Tri-Dash is as follows (as noted, I only possess any semblance of speed in the pool)...

    100-meter freestyle swim (Santa Barbara, CA 1999): 57.2
    1-kilometer time-trial (Colorado Springs, CO 1990!): 1:10.7
    400-meter dash (Boulder, CO 1993): 58.5
    Total time: 3:06.4 (though these times occurred over a nine-year period rather than in a single day, thus rendering me disqualified).
    Alex R
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    Post by Alex R Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:24 am

    Hah. That is nearly exactly what I came up with (but halved). Looks like my mode of thinking was similar.
    Dani
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    Post by Dani "fezza" T Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:13 am

    great idea Alex Smile
    Dan B
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    Post by Dan B Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:33 am

    Be nice to have a link to our sister site for recording times perhaps. Great idea nonetheless.
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    Joe S


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    Post by Joe S Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:46 am

    I'm noticing from the results coming in so far that most people seem to have a consitency between the 3 legs over the distances prescribed (with the main variation appearing to be in the swim when one is present). Was this intentional to highlight which of the 'legs' is the weaker or better for each individual?
    Alex R
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    Post by Alex R Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:28 am

    The individual world records for eaach distance are.....


    Swim - 200m free 1:42
    Bike - 4km pursuit 4:14, kilo 1:00.So extrapolating the 2km would bbe somewhere around 2:04ish if it existed
    Run - 800m 1:41

    The ratios are very very close with the swim and run with the bike perhaps being a little out disctance wise. Maybe a 1.75km TT would be a better distance but I think the bike heavy nature of triatthlon would see on average triathletes with a more even spread across the three if the strongest individual leg athletes were to do a TT.

    The challenges are to of course add up for a Microman score but are also a long term to show how your form inproves in each. I know some dudes running the 800m have ssaid they felt all over the shop and I wouldd think that as their run form increases, the speed will pick up and they will feel more fluid. I also believe that these distances are long enough to be relevent to any distance of triathlete in a proportionate sense to identify an imbalance in individual discipline skill. The results are starting to come in and it looks like my initial theory is going to be pretty sound. Plus I am also using the info to develop something else..... secret......
    Matt C
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    Post by Matt C Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:35 am

    who in this place could swim a 1:42
    MickyC
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    Post by MickyC Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:48 am

    Nobody Matt, unless Biedermann is a triathnet fan... Wink
    Alex R
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    Post by Alex R Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:22 am

    Yeah, koko, those times are world records. It is actually pretty interesting how the swim records keep falling every year but the run records stand for ages. I think the 800m record is 10 years old.
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    Post by Matt C Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:25 am

    its amazing how fast that is

    even hackett and his 1500 wr he averages around 1min / 100... thats another world

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