Bike training

I was going to email you Alex about this anyway. In your recent experience, what affects - & + will I experience doing some high-very high intensity bunch situation riding in the next few months leading up to Hell of the West? I traditionally avoid high effort stuff, and really only get into it in group situations when I do as its not much fun alone.

I'mconsidering joingin up on one of the many hour smash fest here in Canberra once every 9-14 days or so.

Is this another part of the overall package...do I need to learn how to hurt to get that bit faster and hang with the big boys? As you well know I have spent considerable time working on aerobic base.

Paul? Anyone else?

G'day Glenn,

That's exactly what I have been doing since moving to Fremantle. Two rides per week with cyclists. This is how it works

Tuesday: 5:30-7:00 "Bike Force"
I do 1 hr solo before I meet the group and it is basically 2 x 20min of BIG (53/11) over rolling hills, then I join the cyclists
30min easy
10-15min rolling paceline (42-44kph)
10min easy
5-10min rolling paceline (45-47kph)
10min easy
5-10min rolling paceline (48-52kph)
and then it is single file for the next 20minutes and get to the front and go as hard as you possibly can until someone comes around you. We usually drop down to about 4-6guys by this stage and it is very easy to get dropped. This ends with a sprint to a particular sign post

Saturday 6:30-8:30
I meet two guys at 5.30 for 1hr of tempo riding through rolling hills. I can stay with them on the flats but they always drop me on the rollers, they just have too much power, which I don't have. These are the two strongest guys in the whole Bike force group so I get to be hurt and dropped a lot.
We then meet the others at 6.30am (20+riders) and it is just on the next 2-3hrs. Anything that is straight and we must do a rolling paceline, anything that goes up is an absolute sprint to the top (sprint for me ). With an additional 20 odd riders the pacelines are well over 45kph, much you can hold or own. The last 35min of our ride on Saturday had an av sp of 45.2kph. It was with a tailwind but we were hooking It's got to help, I hope.

This sort of riding is completely the opposite to TTing. So many power spikes and surging that I'm not sure how it will transfer across to a better TT split and steady state power. I'll soon find out when I start TTing again. I'm especially curious to know how it will effect my 40km TT av sp.

Overall, I am liking it because you don't get to control how hard or how easy you ride, therefore, you learn to break out of your comfort zones a lot more, which I think is a good thing. That alone I'm hoping will lift my cycling to another level, I just can't get my head aorund why cyclists attack every single roller at every single chance they get??? I don't get that. Not sure what the theory is behind that.

fluro[img][/img]

Well thats the thinking mate. Improve outright power for a bit and then see what happens. I suppose if it doesn't work I can cross it off the list.

Paul

The reason cyclists attack going over rollers is it gives you the best chance of putting a gap in the bunch. Very hard to get away down hill. I suppose it becomes a bit of a habit.

Harris wrote:Paul

The reason cyclists attack going over rollers is it gives you the best chance of putting a gap in the bunch. Very hard to get away down hill. I suppose it becomes a bit of a habit.

G'day Scott,

How do you feel you have changed moving from being a triathlon cyclist to a pure cyclist? Do you think you if you return to triathlon your bike splits would be better?

Do you ride with a group during the week?

Just curious to know how you prepare for cycling events.

fluro

Paul,

The surges up hills and anywhere for that matter in cycle racing is the key to the game. The whole sport is about "holding the wheel". If you get unhitched because you are on your limit when you have the assistance of the draft, there is no coming back. The better they are at that, the better equipped they are to unhitch the passengers in the bunch and increase the chance of winning. These surges are why I get dropped if I ride local A grade, as opposed to B grade. They turn it on and off all day. They are different sports in a way. Phil Giles (with a couple of 4:50 IM bike splits and a 9 flat IM guy) struggles with the surges in A grade by his own admissions. Who cares if it helps anyway? You got to admit it is fun!

I reckon if nothing else, it assists with your perception of RPE. When you are used to sitting on the rivet in pace lines or a handicap race, your IM effort is a breeze.

Mick

You hear about the 10km runners stepping up to marathon running fast times. All of the bike endurance performance things I read are all a function or percentage of your Functional Threshold. Pretty much seems to me that improving this (your 1 hour max average power) is a good thing and the way I found the easiest was to ride for 60 minutes as hard as I could (60 min crits). It not only helped my cycling but also my swimming through a vastly improved aerobic capacity. By pushing your threshold higher and higher, your ironman race speed assuming you don't change it moves further away from threshold. This only does good things for the run.

The surges described above are the difference and this is why I think that a power meter is invaluable for Ironman and not so much for cycling. In cycling you keep up or you go home. The pack is not going to slow for you to be allowed to ride 81.3% of FTP and they are just going to let you sit on the front and burn if you think they are going too slow. The key in my opinion to a good Ironman bike (and therefore run) is to avoid ever going over threshold and riding the rest of the time around 67-70% of threshold watts. The 'bible' says 70-72% from memory but for me those watts are just on the verge of uncomfortable and have me riding a fairly unrealistic speed/split where the 67-70 is right on the nose of what I would expect and will have me positioned well to have a good total time.

Alex,

Have you listened to the Gordo Power Training interview on IMTalk? He talks about using his Power data to do exactly what you prescribe.

Mick

I agree there is not much you can do with PM during cycle racing, but getting your training intervals right when preparing to race is the thing it will do well. Agree or not?

Totally agree. I found that there were some zones I just never rode around in without a specific effort to do so. The most beneficial was for Threshold efforts over 4-6 minutes saving you from going too hard the first minute and fading allowing you the full interval benefit.

BTW, your sekrit FTP no is absurd (I know it is not for sharing). I was re-watching the 2006 TDF stage 17 last night where Flandis soloed away to Morzine and his coach Robbie Ventura was discussing his average wattages over each climb. You're up there, pity you aren't 58kgs. You sure you have that thing zeroed correctly?

4.2 watts/kilo. 515 torque tested on the PT. Nothing special at all. Freak has the same FTP but I outweigh him by 7 kilos.

There was a good discussion going on about the watts/kilo thingy to do a 5hr IM bike split. The general census was 4kg from memory. Your smoking dude

fluro

On a dead flat, nil wind course with moderately good surface on my current pushie set up, 67-70% of FTP will see somewhere in the low 4:5X range. I did 5 flat a couple of years ago and have improved my cycling substantially. Sounds about right.

[quote="Paul F"]

Harris wrote:Paul

G'day Scott,

How do you feel you have changed moving from being a triathlon cyclist to a pure cyclist? Do you think you if you return to triathlon your bike splits would be better?

Do you ride with a group during the week?

Just curious to know how you prepare for cycling events.

fluro

The main change has been the HR I can sit on. My max has increased slightly but my sustainable HR is what has increased dramatically.
I don't know if my Triathlon bike splits would be faster but as Alex alluded to they should feel easier which should then convert to time gained.
Preparation is really event specific I will ride different hills and rides depending on the course profile.